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Poster: clashcity Date: Jan 29, 2010 6:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

"Note that the vast majority of these moments fall sometime after 1981"

Indeed they do. Its obviously hard to pinpoint, but I'd say there's about 50 legitimate 5 star moments - not shows, but just songs, or groups of songs from 82 - 91. And probably say 15 legitimate 5 star shows. And that's being generous.

I find myself in this discussion with a friend of mine often... He holds that the band and Jerry in particular had a better sound, and played more consistently (because Jerry's skills had improved more over the years rather than declined) from the late 80's through 91.

While I enjoy a bunch of stuff from those time periods I think its an absolutely insane perception of the band.

Even more insane is his assertion that 3/24/93 is a top 10 show of all-time.

The only thing I can think of is that he prefers the band as more of nostalgia act/rock band rather than the creative/psychedelic/exploratory force to be reckoned with the band was from 68-77.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jan 29, 2010 8:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

I would say the difference is, that after the 70's, there are some awesome, inspired , moments, songs etc, that I would not want to live without .
But, somewhere in the 80's, some of the songs start sounding like "songs we used to play better before ", say, some of the Europe 72 stuff, or the cowboy songs; they just don't quite sound right . There are times when they sound OK, get of a creditable performance ( Jerry comes up with something good ) of these tunes, but mostly this is the stuff you listen trough/tolerate , till you get to the highlights .
And yes more train wrecks happen later , but sometimes in an almost dreadful show there might be a "Days Between", or such that is worth the trip .Still . that "Get Back"... poor Bob .

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 29, 2010 7:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

Hard to know sarcasm from serious commentary in some of the responses above, but take yours for the latter, CC. However, I have to ask--you do like the early 80s, right? Or am I thinking of BillyD on that conversation? Though I think you are probably right about the stats for the period you discuss, because I haven't examined them, I can't say first hand. My question is, if you are one that appreciates some shows in the 80s, early, I am just curious: is it that you think particular songs within an ave show just happen to be outstanding? Or do you accept that in general they've declined, but somehow they pull off a show that you just really happen to like?

The reason why I am wondering is that for me, in say spring of 69, most all the shows are so similar that it's hard to say this one is a "10" and then this one is a "3" and so on...on the other hand, I can defn say "though this show is a '10' in my book, the CosCharl within it is a '3'!" if that makes sense...

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Poster: clashcity Date: Jan 29, 2010 7:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

You are correct in assuming the latter Sir Tell.

I do enjoy some stuff from the 80's and 90's.

I have listened to complete shows of the time period, but more than anything I opt for just some choice selection from a particular show. So to relate it to your question - I think that the band had some outstanding and spectacular songs within shows that vary in overall execution.

On the other hand there are maybe 6 or so entire shows that I happen to really like.

This post was modified by clashcity on 2010-01-29 15:49:30

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jan 29, 2010 7:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

Your friend is delusional...

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Poster: clashcity Date: Jan 29, 2010 7:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

I've told him that numerous times... the discussions have turned to heated arguments at times.

I find it amazing that he thinks things like the China>Rider from 2/24/74 is just ok... but an Althea from 7/19/89 is something to marvel at.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jan 29, 2010 10:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

well that Althea IS something to marvel at but I agree that he is insane if he thinks the band and Jerry were better in those years than the 70's

I must say though that i think 89-91 were very good years for the band, but you'd definitely have to be crazy to think that those years are better. To me 72-74 was their peak musically with 77 being their last great year.

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Poster: clashcity Date: Jan 29, 2010 10:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

I agree that Althea and that whole show is hot as hell... but c'mon... it doesn't even come close to what the transition jam in 2/24/74 China>Rider is on any level.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jan 29, 2010 10:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

oh don't get me wrong, I agree 100% I'm totally with you. Although 5-19-74 happens to be my all time favorite Chine>Rider transition. Incredibly flawless.

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Poster: clashcity Date: Jan 29, 2010 11:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

I still don't get the Dean Dome obsession... In 93 Garcia's guitar tone was just horrible. Sounded like he was playing with those plastic strings they put on kids guitars.

5/19/74 is another special China>Rider indeed.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jan 29, 2010 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

I don't get the obsession either, my guess it would be from the types who caught all their shows those years. I will say I think the Spanish jam is pretty sweet, one application where I like Jerry's midi effects.

Not a big 93 fan but there's a couple I like such as 3-27-93

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Poster: vapors Date: Jan 29, 2010 5:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

Well what the heck. While neither obsessed or terribly impressed by listening to the 3/24/93 recording just now, I do however recall a very special reunion with old tour mates in NC, and we danced to our hearts delight to songs we loved. Must have been too happy at the time to realize the music would suck today. :)

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jan 29, 2010 1:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

I would have to agree that when looking at the band's downhill slide during (roughly) the second half of their career, '88-'90 (maybe a little '91) sort of represents a last feint at vitality. There's still nothing during this period that can hope to stand toe-to-toe with the best shows of the 60s and 70s, but at least there's some some sign of a pulse during this period.

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Poster: pHurthur Date: Jan 29, 2010 1:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

well maybe.....

TRAIWRECK.jpg

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Poster: Dr. Bilvis Date: Jan 30, 2010 10:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

To me, that last most vital moment of the 80s when they played with renewed and impressive energy night after night is Spring '87. It's like they were reenergized after Jerry's swoon and thrilled to be back on the road. Listen to that tour. They play tight, with authority, and passion every night. I prefer that tour to just about anything in 89-90. Jerry's guitar effects and Brent's increasing cheesy songs and sometimes keyboard work all diminish that 89-90 period. That said, I enjoy all the 80s but yes one cannot compare the late 80s with, say the brilliance of 1977. I see the 90s as another step down. There's some good stuff but those great moments are rarer.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jan 30, 2010 5:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

'87 was undoubtedly an exciting time because of Garcia's return to the stage, and the songs were certainly tightened up in comparison to the absolutely dreadful efforts of 1986. Still, I find 1987 as a whole to be woefully lacking in inspired jamming. Post coma, it really isn't until well into 1988 that they seem to start stretching things out a bit. Just my two cents.

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Poster: TOOTMO Date: Jan 29, 2010 10:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

CC: "I've told him that numerous times... the discussions have turned to heated arguments at times."

Damnit! Stop talkin' and just whoop his ass!


TOOTMO

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Poster: clashcity Date: Jan 29, 2010 10:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

Usually it ends with each of us picking shows and forcing the other to listen, as we illustrate our points.

He loves Garcia's guitar sound in the later years... especially 93 for some reason. Overall he likes the "digital dead" sound.

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Poster: TOOTMO Date: Jan 29, 2010 10:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

Perhaps, my post above was out of line; I know the gregulator would not be happy with me:

Reviewer: gregulator - - May 29, 2009
Subject: this night was magical-no doubt
As much as people bash 90's Dead, I get annoyed with the 70's sometimes as well. Whatever. Make no mistake, this was 'magical' for the 90's or whenever imo. I don't know if i'd say best in the last 3 years... there were a lot of gems in there if you can get past vince/bob cheese fest. The 90s brought us some of the best of the jerry ballads, ever. This night the gem might have been the 'roses'..of course the LSdiamons. And 93 jerry was with it for sure. HCSunshine was big for the time, and of course Box of rain was huge as well. I don't know about best crazy fingers ever, but it was good for the time. I also don't know if I'd say best of any song, I believe it is totally relevant to the time period is how you judge best ever. Guess what, it may seem like it is cool to bash 90s dead but ya had to be there, i GUESS. Seems like a bandwagon thing at this point. Don't hate if you cant relate.


That's my mantra for 2K10: Don't hate if you can't relate.

TOOTMO-lator

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Poster: clashcity Date: Jan 29, 2010 10:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

I assume that review is in re: 3/24/93?

Your previous wasn't out of line... just funny!

Top 10 lists, especially dead related are about as subjective as things get... I'll agree that NC 93 show is a good one, and likely the last time the band played a whole show on any level better than average.

It just ain't no top 10 ever. Period. Whoops I need and iPad...

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jan 29, 2010 11:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

hey man, you guys aint ever going to convince each other as frustrating as it is. Just take some solace in knowing that you are the one that is right

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Poster: drspark61 Date: Jan 29, 2010 12:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

I'm no fan of Garcia's tone in '93 (or the band's performance generally in the '90s), but I think Bob's guitar tone suffered the most in the later years. Brittle and astringent.

I still cringe every time I hear that "car horn" effect. Blecch!

Digital Dead never did much for me.